Interview With Jim Ziegler: “Da Man,” The Legend, The One And Only Alpha Dawg

November 21st, 2019 by

Love him or not, Jim Ziegler, the “Alpha Dawg” has been an outspoken champion of the Automotive Industry. He's built a large following of roughly 150,000 followers across social channels and has served over 15,000 dealerships nationwide. He's a fighter for the industry, for dealerships in particular, and most recently for facing whatever comes at you in life head on, as he announced with characteristic bluntness in October that he is battling an aggressive form of esophageal cancer. Mike Cavanaugh, EVP MAX Digital, had the pleasure of a conversation with "Da Man," the legend, the one and only Alpha Dawg.

Only have a minute to take a peek? Don’t miss his words of wisdom:

“You have to continually reinvent yourself don't ever get settled into what was. You know, keep your mind open. I mean, I've always had an open mind to new things, new ideas, new concepts…”

“You know, my predictions have become true so often when everybody else said no, because I read the public. I know what consumers will and will not do. And so many vendors have not got a clue they, they think like geeks, okay. There is a small percentage of society that really are geeks if, if you're trying to design something to sell to yourself, you're never going to succeed...”

“I'm up at four o'clock, every morning. I'm on the computer early. I'm planning my day. I sharpen the axe before I start cutting the tree. And so many people are not are not planning their business. They're not following up. And when they do follow up, it's all about who do you know? Buy a car from me. Do you have a relative? You have a friend? They never get into the people. They don't care about the people…I make relationships. And the best way to get referrals is to give referrals. So many people sell a car to: a plumber, or an electrician or a physician. And they never refer anybody to the plumber, the electrician or the physician. I always kept tabs…I would call people. I would constantly stay in touch with previous customers and I never ever opened up with what's in it for me before I got into what's in it for them.”

“I want to be remembered as being honest, ethical, egotistical, show off, [like] Muhammad Ali, he shot his mouth off, but he knocked them out.”

And fabulous stories:

“[I’m 7 years old] 60 feet up in a tree hanging on a branch, cutting mistletoe, throwing it down to the big boys. So, we would sell it outside of Winn-Dixie grocery store and Rexall. 10 cents a handful…The next Christmas, we cut down a limb with 200 pounds of mistletoe and drug it out of the forest… My mother bought ribbons and bows and made bunches out of it. So, I said Rodney Evereski - you got Rexall, Bobby Shoop - you got Winn-Dixie. You get 10 cents, I get 10 cents, my mom gets a nickel, 25 cents a sprig. So now I'm a sales manager.”

“I've been on so many campaigns. Federal Trade Commission's come after me for organizing boycotts, which I don't do anymore. Well you know, it's amazing when you when you got 150,000 car people behind you and you can communicate with them. You can move a crowd.”

“[Irving Silver] made me a hat that said ‘Da Man’ D-A M-A-N. And I wore the ‘Da Man’ logo. I actually I got a trademark on ‘Da Man.’ So, if anybody said you ‘Da Man,’ no they're not, Ziegler’s “Da Man,” the government recognizes it.”

A huge thank you to Jim for the interview, we love you Alpha Dawg!

See video for full interview. Interview transcript below edited and excerpted for clarity and editorial standards.


Interview with Jim Ziegler, Nov. 11th, 2019

Cavanaugh:

Well, this will be a different experience. We’ll be turning the tables on you. You usually get to get to interview me, so I'm honored to get a chance to ask you some questions today.

Ziegler:

43 years in the car business, I probably have a story or two.

Cavanaugh:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I bet. I can't wait to hear some. Well, the first question I have for you today, really is how did you get involved in automotive in general?

Ziegler:

In general, I was a radio advertising salesman, I was a disc jockey. I'm a pretty famous disc jockey as a matter of fact, but I got divorced and I sort of dropped out for a while and I thought, well, I'll sell cars until I can get a good job. I was selling Honda's occasionally for one of my friends Steve Lucas in Jacksonville, and he referred me to a Datsun dealership. And I went to work full time at the Datsun dealership, Coggin Datsun.

Cavanaugh:

One of my first cars was the year that Datsun and Nissan switched over from the Datsun Nissan 300ZX.

Ziegler:

I had those for demos. And it was interesting because the top salesman at the dealership got a demo of their choice. And being a single guy, I had to have a 280ZX. And eventually the 300ZX.

Cavanaugh:

Those were pretty cool cars back then, weren't they?

Ziegler:

Oh my gosh. And you know, that was the reason I left the company. They took my demo away.

Cavanaugh:

Yeah, that was the standard back then. And nowadays, you're lucky if one person gets a demo at the dealership, right?

Ziegler:

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, being in the car business 43 years. You see a lot. You've seen a lot of evolution in the business. It's interesting what's happened.

Cavanaugh:

It sure is, at what point in those 43 years did you become the Alpha Dawg?

Ziegler:

Not too long ago, probably eight years ago, I had a friend Irving Silver. Irving Silver was actually the top salesman of his generation. He sold more cars than anybody. I met him in 1983 or 1984. Now get this Irving had been the number one Nash Rambler salesman in history.

Cavanaugh:

Wow, that’s going back.

Ziegler:

So anyway, he comes out of retirement. I'm working at Troncalli Motors, which was a Nissan Jaguar dealership, and he sold 837 Jaguars in two years. Set the record plus sold a whole bunch of Nissans and used cars during that same amount of time. So, Irving and I became very close friends. And then about 10 years ago, somebody said to me, “Jim, you ever heard of a salesman named Irving Silver?” I said, “Yeah, he was one of my best friends.” “What do you mean he was?” I said, “Well he died?” He said, “No, he's my uncle. I just talked to him.” I said, “No.” So I brought him out of retirement in his 90s and he and I were traveling around the country doing seminars together. I'm dragging this old guy through the airport. Just fun, fun times. And yeah, so he made me a hat that said “Da Man” D-A M-A-N. And I wore the “Da Man” logo. I actually I got a trademark on “Da Man.” So, if anybody said you “Da Man,” no they're not, Ziegler’s “Da Man,” the government recognizes it. When Irving passed away, I retired “Da Man.” And Georgia Bulldogs, I live in Georgia, so we went with Alpha Dawg because showing off is what I do best.

Cavanaugh:

Very, very true you do it well and with some class, too. So, all these years doing all these conferences and interviewing people out there. What's the most interesting conversation, interesting interview you've ever had?

Ziegler:

The most interesting interview I've ever had? Oh, golly, there have been so many great people. You know, there are some icons in the business. You know, Grant Cardone and I did a joint thing one time on Blab, which was precursor to Facebook Live and I think that was probably it. You know, at one time Grant Cardone and I were like, neck-on-neck. You know, we both came out of the gate about the same time and, and by the way, I admire Grant greatly. But there came a time when our careers went different directions. You know, he, he basically was chasing bigger money than I was chasing. And I was more about the political side of the business. I was about justice for the dealers. I was about other things. You know, I have enough money. Yeah. You know, how much money is enough money. You know, I've got enough and Grant and I took different paths and like I said I admire Grant. But that was probably one of the more dynamic interviews I ever did. We interviewed each other basically.

Cavanaugh:

Very cool. Yeah, he's an interesting guy. He's got quite a quite a following now. So, of all the records, I know you've got a lot of records out there. You've had some amazing numbers in your career in the in the car business. What record are you most proud of that you have?

Ziegler:

Well, there's, there's a couple living witnesses, which I’m really proud of. In 1983, Tony Digaggi was my F&I representative back when I was at Banner Ford, and he came up to me and I was a brand new F&I manager. I was still dating my wife, you know, it was just a formative time and Tony said, “My God, you could hit $1,000 a retail unit this month.” I said, “Well, so?” He said, “Nobody's ever done it.” “Really?” He said, “Yeah, you're in the high nines.” So, Mike, I consciously went after that number. You know it wasn't an accident. And I hit $1,000 a retail unit. And I had him research it before anybody else in the country hit that number.

Cavanaugh:

Pretty amazing. Back in 1983.

Ziegler:

1983 we had 48-month financing. Remember, there wasn't any 60-month financing? And we were dealing with $10,000 cars.

Cavanaugh:

Totally different ballgame than today.

Ziegler:

And we only had two products, credit life and service contracts and rate.

Cavanaugh:

That was it. Yeah. A lot less levers to pull than they have today. Right?

Ziegler:

And I had to be an F&I manager, because my wife wouldn't marry a salesman.

Cavanaugh:

There you go. That's pretty funny. You know, I've got the same the same story to as well. My wife’s family wasn't big fans of me being in the car business selling cars either so I can relate.

Ziegler:

Well, I was just going to do it so I got a good job you know?

Cavanaugh:

Yeah, I think a lot of people go into the business intended that and they find out how much money they can make and how fun the industry really is, if you're good at it. I think if you're mediocre at it, you know this industry is not that fun. It's a grind, but if you get good at it and to your point, if you if you treat it like your craft and mastering your craft, you know it can be a lot of fun.

Ziegler:

Well, the fun part of it is the third month in the industry I made $4,500 now we're talking 1976. Now, do you know what $4,500 was in 1976?

Cavanaugh:

What would you equate that to today?

Ziegler:

$4,500. That would have been a $30,000 month, think about it. I had never made that much as an executive at a radio station [which] was considered a much more prestigious position.

Cavanaugh:

Prestige or pocketbook? I'd take the pocketbook increase over prestige increase any day.

Ziegler:

I was a top salesman, I set records in radio advertising sales before I ever got in the car business. I was working for a radio station WVOJ in Jacksonville. And I sold a quarter of a million dollars commercials in two years, each of the two years. And people say well that's not a lot. Yeah, it was at $8.80 a spot.

Cavanaugh:

Wow, that is a lot. You know, you’ve had a lot of success in these different industries now in radio and in automotive and running your own organization and doing different things. Now, there's got to be some kind of key principles to making you successful in sales. And I've talked to you about some of these things before and you've given some great advice. What are those things that you think are transferable in any industry that make you successful?

Ziegler:

People, people, people, people. You know, you and I have had private conversations we, we've been one on one in person face to face. And I think I've related to you, I've got 150,000 people on social media. You know that's LinkedIn, that's YouTube, that's Facebook, that's Pinterest, that's all the social avenues. But even before that, I networked heavily. When I wrote the book The Prosperity Equation 20 years ago, in the book, it says, the most powerful people on earth are those people that influence the most other people. Influence is power. And Zig Ziglar, who I am no relation to, but I knew him very well. He was a friend. He always used to kid me that I didn't spell my name correctly. Yeah, spelled slightly different. But anyway, Zig Ziglar says, “You will get everything you want in life if you help other people get what they want.” So, the secret has always been helping others with no expectation of reward. If you do some good stuff, some good stuff will come back to you. And I'm just reveling in my legacy right now because so many people since I've contracted this cancer are coming to me saying Ziegler you changed my life. Ziegler you did this... I'm a general manager. You trained me as a salesman. Ziegler, you did this for me. You got me a job when I was out of work. Ziegler, you did this. All these people are coming up with these testimonials and I’d forgotten most of it. So yeah, it's like, yeah, if you do good things and you help a lot of people, the rewards will come to you. Like I tell salespeople, I'm a prospecting fool I can out prospect anybody watching this broadcast (Wanna take a challenge?) …anybody watching this broadcast. I am the best prospector in the world, the universe, they might prospect on other planets. But anyway, I am that good. I can walk out in any dealership in the world and sell a car before the sun sets to a stranger. Every day of the week.

Cavanaugh:

So what do you think that the guys in the car business is struggling with now the most you know you talked about prospecting, being excellent prospecting and that's kind of one of the most foundational things in sales anywhere and you spend all this time going all over the country talking to people in the car business. Where are salespeople in particular you think struggling the most right now?

Ziegler:

Well, paradigms, they don't believe they can make a living. They believe it's all going to come through social media, and it will. But when you get face to face with people, and you don't have a following, you don't have people in your network, you're not filling up the funnel. You don't have the work ethic. The work ethic is so lacking in today's salesforces in general. I mean, that's a generalization and I'm not talking to everybody. But, you know, even at my age, I'm up at four o'clock, every morning. I'm on the computer early. I'm planning my day. I sharpen the axe before I start cutting the tree. And so many people are not are not planning their business. They're not following up. And when they do follow up, it's all about who do you know? Buy a car from me. Do you have a relative? You have a friend? They never get into the people. They don't care about the people they're talking to. If you care about the people, many times I'll call people up say, “Look, I don't have a business agenda for this call today. I'll sell you something some other time. I just will see how you're doing. Is the car doing okay? Did your wife get that promotion?” You know, I make relationships. And the best way to get referrals is to give referrals. So many people sell a car to a plumber, or an electrician or a physician. And they never refer anybody to the plumber, the electrician or the physician. I always kept tabs. And my CRM was really complicated. It was a flat file Rolodex. Computers. Computers were for the F&I department Wang and Oakleaf, you know. The beauty of the flat file Rolodex is I would tickle that file every day and I would call people. I would constantly stay in touch with previous customers and I never ever opened up with what's in it for me before I got into what's in it for them. And so many you know, it's amazing when Chip Perry begin Autotrader back in the day. You know, Chip.

Cavanaugh:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ziegler:

When he started Autotrader they hired me to teach his Salesforce how to sell to car dealers. And I mean, they were paying me to wear Autotrader shirts in my seminar. So like Tiger Woods wearing a swoosh.

Cavanaugh:

That's funny, it’s sponsorship. You’ve been in the industry for 43 years and you've probably worked with a lot of different vendors. You've seen a lot of different vendors. I get to see a lot of your commentary online about different vendors. You're a bit of a prophet, too. And a lot of your predictions come true. I've seen some of the things you say come true. If you're going to look into the crystal ball and look out, 10 years from now, who do you think's going to make it through? Who do you think is going to not make it through? Let’s hear some Jim Ziegler predictions.

Ziegler:

Well, you know, a lot of my friends are lead providers. So, this isn't an animosity thing. I mean, there's a couple of them I really don't like, but there's some I really, really like. I think the lead provider model is obsolete. I think the lead provider model, they're grasping for straws, right now. I just saw Cars.com stock tank, you know, just it's one of those things where that model has been replaced. Social media is probably more effective as a marketing tool than some of the lead providers. Especially Facebook, Facebook's the best value out there. If you know how to advertise on social media, it's a much better, cheaper, more measurable type. And you know, this is what gets people, they see Ziegler and say he's old, he doesn't know social media, doesn't know [the internet]. I'm teaching internet, you've been to my seminars.

Cavanaugh:

You get around a computer better than I do. You can do a web broadcast and you know about everything there is to know about digital marketing. I'd say that you’re one of the experts in my eyes.

Ziegler:

Well, what you do is you have to continually reinvent yourself don't ever get settled into what was. You know, keep your mind open. I mean, I've always had an open mind to new things, new ideas, new concepts, but you talk about the idea that I am a predictor. My predictions have been more accurate than so many people and the reason is not because I'm so brilliant because some other people were so stupid. You know, like my latest crow is subscription cars. Everybody was applauding subscription cars a year ago and I said, “Not in a million billion years,” And people say well, why not? I say well, math. They're all tanking now. I see where Fair just laid off all their employees or a lot of their employees. Subscription cars crashed and it crashed hard so and my good friend Kevin Frye over at the Jeff Wyler group, they invest a lot of money and a lot of people invest a lot of money in it. And I'm saying that it's not going to work, mathematics didn't make it work and the public's not going to go for that. You know, my predictions have become true so often when everybody else said no, because I read the public. I know what consumers will and will not do. And so many vendors have not got a clue they, they think like geeks, okay. There is a small percentage of society that really are geeks if, if you're trying to design something to sell to yourself, you're never going to succeed. It doesn't make sense.

Cavanaugh:

Yeah, it does. Yeah, I had some advice given to me a long time ago and said sell to the masses live amongst the classes, sell to the classes live amongst the masses. You know you have to decide something you can sell to the majority of people, not to a select few.

Ziegler:

Exactly, so you know it's amazing I've been on so many campaigns. Federal Trade Commission's come after me for organizing boycotts, which I don't do anymore. Well you know, it's amazing when you when you got 150,000 car people behind you and you can communicate with them. You can you can move a crowd.

Cavanaugh:

You’ve been effective at rallying people together and building a following before you know that the term social media “influencer” was even a thing right and now I would definitely consider you an influencer. How have you built this following over time? And I know you talked about people a lot, but you know, I think 150,000 people in an industry the size of ours is pretty good. Pretty good accomplishment, pretty incredible feat. How did you do that? Or did you try to?

Ziegler:

You know, you kind of remember I have been the keynote speaker, not a speaker, but the keynote opening speaker at 98 state dealer conventions. I've done Texas a bunch of times. Oh my gosh, Massachusetts. You look at Louisiana. There are states that I've done multiple times. And I've done a lot of 20 groups. If I said I did a hundred I have never kept count on that. But if I said I did a hundred 20 group meetings that would probably be accurate. And I've spoken at fourteen NADA conventions. You know, and I'm always been in the top 10. I've written for three major magazines, actually four. So, all in all, at one time I was the most read columnist in the industry when I worked with Dealer magazine. So you know that built all these different avenues before social media built a big following.

Cavanaugh:

When did you decide to get out of working in dealerships and into building your own legacy here that you built over time and your claim to fame?

Ziegler:

Well, in 1986, I had had several pay renegotiations with previous dealers. Every time I outperformed the pay plan. The last job I had in the car business was a Nissan dealership, small town. I believe the dealer put his hand on the Bible and said I will never cut your pay plan. Three months in a row, I made $17,000 a month and he cut my pay plan. This is 1986, so I came home to my wife and I said I quit. I had my cardboard box under my arm, you know, salesman Samsonite. I'm home. She said, “What are you gonna do?” I said, “Well, we'll start a consulting company.” I've got this stack of legal pads with notes and I’m going to start a consulting company. She said, “Who's ever done this?” I said, “Nobody. I'm creating an industry.” Mike, do you realize I was the first one?

Cavanaugh:

No, I didn't realize that.

Ziegler:

I don't know if you remember Jackie B. Cooper. Jackie B. Cooper was a business friend. I mean, we didn't hang at each other's house, but I talked to him quite often, and I knew him. And I watched his career because he did really well. But he wasn't a consultant. He was a trainer. And I wanted to be a consultant because I had been in a management position. And I didn't want to be a sales trainer. I wanted to be a management trainer. Because the records I set were in management. So to become a manager, it was really important (and that's been part of my successes) that I've consulted on the dealership level. When I go into a dealership I don't answer to the general manager unless the general manager is the operating partner. My authority has always come from the dealer. So the dealerships that we grew to the big numbers, always I had a fair [amount of power]. There were dealerships where I could fire employees and write checks, to give you an idea. When I was in the dealership, I was in effect the general manager. I'll give you example, Ed Bozarth, the Ed Bozarth dealerships in Colorado, I could requisition, I couldn't requisition a check that the general manager didn't approve of, but I could say let’s buy this and Ed would approve it. I could terminate their employees, which I only did once. But anyway, Ed Bozarth paid me probably close to $2 million over 20 years. Show you what kind of guy he was. That’s the authority I had in the dealerships. That's how we did the big numbers because I've had managers come up to me and they look at me like any other consultant. “Well, when you catch the plane Friday, we'll go back to what we used to do.” They come up to me saying, “Mr. Ziegler, we're going to modify your system.” “No, you're not. You don't call an award-winning chef and change the recipe. Do you think your dealer hired me because he believes you're doing a good job?” That used to always ruffle some people, but I was a pretty big guy, I could back it up.

Cavanaugh:

Yeah, you said you could bench press like 500 pounds at one time, right?

Ziegler:

No, 450 was my best and I did 450 for a number of years. That that caused me some problems in later life. Don't do it. I told my back surgeon when they were working on my back, I used to bench press 450, and he said, “Why?”

Cavanaugh:

Yeah, I had a similar conversation. My doctor one time, when I was younger man working out a lot, said, “Mike, you ever plan on going to a career in the NFL?” I said, “No.” “You ever plan on competing in a bodybuilding competition?” I said, “No.” He said, “Then do some damn cardio. Lose some weight.”

Ziegler:

One of the funniest things in my career is when they enter me in the Fighting Championship.

Cavanaugh:

Oh, no.

Ziegler:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is 1982 just before I left Jacksonville and they called it the “Battle of the Toughest” it was the same Corporation but just different. So I trained with a get-ready guys for six weeks, out in the get-ready shop. Sparring with the get-ready guys and I was a pretty good bar fighter, like you said I was bench pressing a lot of weight and I was winning a lot in the bars. Now it was a different Ziegler. I got knocked out in 45 seconds. I'm wearing my Adidas bathing suit that the salesman bought me, my Sears and Roebuck bathrobe with a dealership logo on the back. Adidas shoes. Adidas trunks. This guy that I fought shows up Everlast boxing trunks and professional shoes. He knocked me out in 45 seconds. Later on that night we're in the lounge with all the car salesmen and we’re commiserating. And some fool walks up to me so I saw you fight tonight. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “You're not worth a damn are ya?” Now, I won that fight.

Cavanaugh:

That's pretty good. Pretty good.

Ziegler:

I won that one.

Cavanaugh:

Times have changed a lot for you over the years and throughout the decades. If you think about when you were in your 30s, you know, your 40s or 50s or 60s. How did your goals and what was important to you in your life change throughout your life and throughout your career?

Ziegler:

Well, like I say, out of the gate Grant Cardone and I were neck on neck you know, and he was, he was chasing the big dollars and he got them. I chased big money until I felt I had enough and then we, our careers went different ways. And I'm sort of a recognition guy. When I was a welder and when I was a aircraft mechanic during the Vietnam years, I really hated the trades. I'm a journeyman in three aircraft trades. I did seven years of apprenticeship right out of high school during Vietnam I worked 10 hours a day, seven days a week repairing aircraft, in Jacksonville, Naval Air Rework facility. And you know, I can remember welding one night [thinking] I hate this. This sucks. I turned to my toolbox at night and I said I will never again be paid for what I do with my hands. I will be paid for what I know in my head. I have a genius level IQ. I don't think I've ever said that to anybody in the car business before, but it's been measured and whatnot. And I always want to be paid for what I knew. Does that makes sense?

Cavanaugh:

It does.

Ziegler:

Mike I just told you something I don't think I've ever told anybody. Yeah, you know it's [my IQ] about 168, which was well measured, but to be a high school graduate people are looking for different things out of me. But I always want to be a salesman. I was a sales manager when I was eight. My mother was driving down Cassat Avenue in Jacksonville, Florida. And she heard me yelling, I was like, seven years old. Hey, mom, and she looks up and 60 feet up in a tree I'm hanging on a branch, cutting mistletoe, throwing it down to the big boys. So, we would sell it outside of Winn-Dixie grocery store and Rexall. 10 cents a handful. We were selling mistletoe I was selling or I was a salesman, seven years old, selling mistletoe outside every Christmas. So, then my father said you're not going to do this anymore. The next Christmas, he went out in the forest with me. We cut down a limb with 200 pounds of mistletoe and drug it out of the forest. We put it in a bucket with nutrients in it. My mother bought ribbons and bows and made bunches out of it. Really nice bunches out of it with ribbons. So, I said Rodney Evereski - you got Rexall, Bobby Shoop - you got Winn-Dixie. You get 10 cents, I get 10 cents, my mom gets a nickel, 25 cents a sprig. So now I'm a sales manager. I got the kids in the neighborhood working for me, selling my mistletoe. And my mother supervising the whole thing.

Cavanaugh:

That's awesome. I gotta ask you a couple more questions. I know you only had about a half hour blocked off for us and we're a little bit over.

Ziegler:

Hey, listen, I got all the time. I love it. And I only had a half hour, but this is fun.

Cavanaugh: This is great, I appreciate it. So I wanted to know, I grew up in a car business my whole life and you've been in the car business most of your life too. We've got a bad rap in the business and for good reason in many cases, but you know, if you could tell the general public so to speak, something about the car business what would be the one thing that you would want to tell about the people that operate dealerships that sell cars? What would you tell people?
Ziegler:

Well, I was interviewed by 60 Minutes, about 15 years ago, maybe 20. And the 60 Minutes interview, it was Steve Kroft that interviewed me. And I said most car people today are emotionally and historically invested in your community. We really care. Now, yeah, there were the old stereotypes. I even participated in the old stereotypes. I've got photographs of people doing push-ups to qualify for credit life insurance. I mean, [it was] never mean always fun, but still. We care about all those little stereotypes. And there are some vendors that deliberately keep those stereotypes alive. Because it's to their advantage to create hate on the car dealers. My opinion now, but CARFAX. The dishonest car salesman is screwing over the customer and the little fox jumps up and rats him out. That's their commercial, right? Excuse me. If you got to take a dealer's money, you don't defame the dealer and we don't do those things. Those stereotypes don't exist. I mean, they do exist. I'm sure there's some people doing that. But it's the gross minority of dealers not most of us, no.

Cavanaugh:

So I think that's good advice. What now? What have we not talked about today that, you know, you'd want people to know about, about the Alpha Dog, about Jim Ziegler, as a human being?

Ziegler:

Well, I've gotten really in touch with my Christianity recently. Um, it's always been there, but I'm not the poster boy for the Methodist religion, my language is the biggest thing I have to work on I will do a diatribe like a sailor every once in a while, not a Marine. But anyway I've gotten in touch with it because right now I'm into my legacy years you know, even if the cancer wasn't here. There's no guarantee. I'm going to fool all my haters, I'm not going to die. I'm going to not die. If you don't mind. Yeah, the odds are about 50/50 on me right now, you know that the type of cancer I have is esophageal cancer, you know, it's just um, you know, it's a pretty harsh cancer. I got a pretty dramatic surgery ahead of me. So, I'm looking forward to be on the other side of it one way or another. So, I want to be remembered as being honest, ethical, egotistical, show off… Muhammad Ali, he shot his mouth off, but he knocked him out. That's the way I want to be remembered regardless of whether it's another five years or another five months.

Cavanaugh:

That's great. Well, I truly consider it a, you know, an honor and a privilege to get to spend time with you, you know, today and over the last year or so, getting to know you better and spend some time with you in person. And, you know, I appreciate everything you've done for the industry that I love. And I know a lot of other people out there that have watched this love you as well. So thank you for all you've done, and we love you, Jim.